Thursday, February 06, 2003

On Thursday, February 6, 2003, at 07:10 AM, JDBrummer@aol.com wrote:

Okay- here you go. An unborn baby shot and killed.  Is it murder? 
-Julie
Pregnant Woman Shot on Subway Train, Baby Killed
- Metro Networks
Boston police have a homicide investigation under way. A woman who was nine months pregnant was shot on board a Red Line MBTA train about 8 p.m. Wednesday. Witnesses say the incident happened just as the inbound train pulled into the Massachusetts Avenue station. They told police a man at one end of a car spotted a group of five teens at the other end and yelled to passengers "get down they've got a gun." The gun went off and the 34-year-old woman collapsed with a bullet to the abdomen. The teens -- all wearing hoods -- ran off the train and into the crowd. The victim was taken to Boston Medical Center for surgery where the baby died. The woman is in critical condition. Police say it appears she was an innocent bystander. "T" officials report the teens had been in an altercation earlier at the Forest Hills station. They're being sought by police.


In a message dated 2/6/2003 1:06:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, charles@radioflyerx.com writes:

Julie:
    Yes. It is murder, When a woman decides to have a child, she has made
a choice which must be honored in all ways.
But you already knew that - you were just looking for a brawl here. and
you ain't getting it, because I am a man of Peace.

-c


On Thursday, February 6, 2003, at 09:10 AM, JDBrummer@aol.com wrote:

Okay. So if I reply-- "so it's okay for the mother to kill the kid, but nobody else then?"  You're not biting?  Man of peace. Okay. I won't argue with you. But I'm going to watch this case.  If they send somebody up for murder on this, it'll open up a discussion fer sure.
J


In a message dated 2/6/2003 1:06:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, charles@radioflyerx.com writes:

Julie:
Yes- well, no- it is not okay for the mother to make the decision to "kill" what she has created- just as it was not okay for mom's decision to abandon that kid who was created with the ability to feel emotions in the movie A.I. It is never okay, but it must be permitted. The age-old problem here is the question of when does 'life' begin, and who has the right to decide the fate of that life?. The answer is unsettling, because the answer is: Life probably begins at conception- not at birth. But using similar criteria, a good argument can be made that the splooge in your mouth is also a "life form,".
Again, we are on the same page as far as agreeing whether you are taking a life (murder is not the correct word here)- You are, of course, taking a life - or more rather, you are preventing a life-form from expanding to what could be a more evolved conscious state- this is the huge difference! The Catholic Church has always felt that life has already begun with the semen and the egg, and they still forbid any form of birth control except abstention (and the rhythm-method).
Nature has instilled the instinct of survival in all life-forms with such tenacity that almost any protein-like living organism will seek to exist and to procreate. This means that it can become overwhelming and confusing when someone is in a position where they must decide what is allowed to survive and what is sacrificed. So, whether we like it or not, (just as when we make a decision to play God, and put a pet to sleep; or when a mom has to choose between one of her two Siamese children; or when parents must decide whether to let the child be born with down-syndrome or some other life-and-time-consuming affliction, or when the mother's life is at risk)- It's all fucking "murder" if you think about it.
It's just (in a clinical and totally objective way) making a decision that is the more practical, realistic and convenient for the circumstances. Sounds cruel? Try the other options: coat hangers, overpopulation, third-world starvation and disease, and the destruction of an entire family (that, of course, would be several life-forms) due to the, "all human life is precious, regardless of the circumstances" mentality, and on and on.
I think I talked about this once before: If the day comes when (ex: as in compulsory fluoridation which occurs in most of the Western world) all humans will be rendered sterile unless they voluntarily take a drug or serum which will allow them to get pregnant- then, and only then, can abortion be a capital offense; and then, and only then, can it be considered "murder".